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	<title>Comments on: Episode 12: The Necessity of the Frame in Psychotherapy</title>
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	<description>Psychology podcast and resources for students and educators</description>
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		<title>By: Mindblogs: Part 9 &#171; Law &#38; Mind Sciences</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-3427</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindblogs: Part 9 &#171; Law &#38; Mind Sciences</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 13:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-3427</guid>
		<description>[...] topics Michael covers are fascinating, both in breadth and substance, ranging from the practical (how do you know if your therapist is good?; how to memorize the parts of the brain) to the controversial (the development of sexual [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] topics Michael covers are fascinating, both in breadth and substance, ranging from the practical (how do you know if your therapist is good?; how to memorize the parts of the brain) to the controversial (the development of sexual [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan hennessey</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-2746</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan hennessey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-2746</guid>
		<description>I think it would be fairly obvious that a therapist &#039;coming on to you sexually, would constitute a bad session. I feel that most people would feel rather patronised by this. You should also not expect total confidentiality , as suggested here. Any competent therapist has a duty to break confidentiality in some events- for example where a patient&#039;s disclosure is of a serious crime or abuse or constitues a threat to the public or another party. A competent therapist clarifies this at the start, and the promise of complete confidentiality is thereFore  not &#039;good&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it would be fairly obvious that a therapist &#8216;coming on to you sexually, would constitute a bad session. I feel that most people would feel rather patronised by this. You should also not expect total confidentiality , as suggested here. Any competent therapist has a duty to break confidentiality in some events- for example where a patient&#8217;s disclosure is of a serious crime or abuse or constitues a threat to the public or another party. A competent therapist clarifies this at the start, and the promise of complete confidentiality is thereFore  not &#8216;good&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-2598</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-2598</guid>
		<description>On a side note...my apologies for the many typos in my previous post...perhaps I could take take a few minutes to review before posting next time. 
R</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a side note&#8230;my apologies for the many typos in my previous post&#8230;perhaps I could take take a few minutes to review before posting next time.<br />
R</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>As an avid follower of your podcasts, I must say that this (Episode 12) has made the most lasting impression on me. I&#039;ve even forwarded it to my supervisor for discussion as it&#039;s a vry practical reference for discussion around many general therapeutic issues. 

I also want to address the issue of self-disclosure and reinforce Mathew&#039;s point-of-view as this has been an ongoing issue for me a &#039;sexual health&#039; counsellor who has worked within the GLBT community for 5+ years.  I should also include here that I am openly gay and have been HIV+ for close to 25 years. Having lived with HIV for what constitutes my entire adult life, my &#039;lived experience&#039; often provides me with insights and perspectives inaccessible to non-HIV+ therapists, however, does not always have appropriate therapeutic value, even to HIV+ clients. That said, there are particular clients, circumstances and interventions (acute crisis (suicidal intention/plan) triggered by HIV+ diangosis) which may benefit from such intimate self-disclosure. Although I have no empiral evidence, I can say with confidence that sharing this with clients in such cases is often the most effective means of demonstrating empathetic support who might otherwise lack any connection or experience to such a stigmatized condition/experience.

Initially, I purposely avoided bringing this into sessions with clients and struggled with the inherent conflicts of being a gay, HIV+ counsellor (working at the AIDS Council of NSW aka: ACON), however  with the support of my very experienced and skilled supervisor, developed confidence in my therapeutic skills to guide this aspect of my practice. 

There are/will always be extenuating circumstances to any &#039;frame&#039; and as such it becomes increasingly important to remain mindful of (to quote yet another of your previous podcasts) &quot;throw the baby out with the bathwater&quot;.

Thank you for your time and tireless efforts in providing such a useful resource through your podcasts.

Kind regards,
Ron</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an avid follower of your podcasts, I must say that this (Episode 12) has made the most lasting impression on me. I&#8217;ve even forwarded it to my supervisor for discussion as it&#8217;s a vry practical reference for discussion around many general therapeutic issues. </p>
<p>I also want to address the issue of self-disclosure and reinforce Mathew&#8217;s point-of-view as this has been an ongoing issue for me a &#8216;sexual health&#8217; counsellor who has worked within the GLBT community for 5+ years.  I should also include here that I am openly gay and have been HIV+ for close to 25 years. Having lived with HIV for what constitutes my entire adult life, my &#8216;lived experience&#8217; often provides me with insights and perspectives inaccessible to non-HIV+ therapists, however, does not always have appropriate therapeutic value, even to HIV+ clients. That said, there are particular clients, circumstances and interventions (acute crisis (suicidal intention/plan) triggered by HIV+ diangosis) which may benefit from such intimate self-disclosure. Although I have no empiral evidence, I can say with confidence that sharing this with clients in such cases is often the most effective means of demonstrating empathetic support who might otherwise lack any connection or experience to such a stigmatized condition/experience.</p>
<p>Initially, I purposely avoided bringing this into sessions with clients and struggled with the inherent conflicts of being a gay, HIV+ counsellor (working at the AIDS Council of NSW aka: ACON), however  with the support of my very experienced and skilled supervisor, developed confidence in my therapeutic skills to guide this aspect of my practice. </p>
<p>There are/will always be extenuating circumstances to any &#8216;frame&#8217; and as such it becomes increasingly important to remain mindful of (to quote yet another of your previous podcasts) &#8220;throw the baby out with the bathwater&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thank you for your time and tireless efforts in providing such a useful resource through your podcasts.</p>
<p>Kind regards,<br />
Ron</p>
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		<title>By: Personality Pedagogy Newsletter Volume 4, Number 9, May, 2010 &#171; Personality Pedagogy Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-2477</link>
		<dc:creator>Personality Pedagogy Newsletter Volume 4, Number 9, May, 2010 &#171; Personality Pedagogy Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 01:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-2477</guid>
		<description>[...] 7. Transference, Countertransference, and Other Guidelines for Psychotherapy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 7. Transference, Countertransference, and Other Guidelines for Psychotherapy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-1975</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-1975</guid>
		<description>I think that both &quot;EastCoaster&quot; and the Sydney psychologist make good points.  It&#039;s true that Langs&#039; is heavily psychoanalytical and I have to agree that his stance on these boundaries is quite strict.  EastCoaster: the arrangement your psychiatrist and you made regarding payment sounds quite reasonable and I agree with you that the hug goodbye you describe sounds actually quite therapeutic.  

It&#039;s hard to provide a list of &quot;rights and wrongs&quot; that will fit every situation, and Langs&#039; ideas may be a bit extreme, but they certainly make people think about boundaries and their importance in the therapeutic relationship and that&#039;s a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that both &#8220;EastCoaster&#8221; and the Sydney psychologist make good points.  It&#8217;s true that Langs&#8217; is heavily psychoanalytical and I have to agree that his stance on these boundaries is quite strict.  EastCoaster: the arrangement your psychiatrist and you made regarding payment sounds quite reasonable and I agree with you that the hug goodbye you describe sounds actually quite therapeutic.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to provide a list of &#8220;rights and wrongs&#8221; that will fit every situation, and Langs&#8217; ideas may be a bit extreme, but they certainly make people think about boundaries and their importance in the therapeutic relationship and that&#8217;s a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Psychologist &#38; Counsellor Associates Sydney</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-1973</link>
		<dc:creator>Psychologist &#38; Counsellor Associates Sydney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-1973</guid>
		<description>PS I actually think reading his work he is bordering on paranoid, or at the very least is somewhat reductionist in his view of what influences the patient somewhat discounting the inevitable influence and experience by the patient of the real therapist behind the frame... :0)
Joanna</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS I actually think reading his work he is bordering on paranoid, or at the very least is somewhat reductionist in his view of what influences the patient somewhat discounting the inevitable influence and experience by the patient of the real therapist behind the frame&#8230; :0)<br />
Joanna</p>
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		<title>By: Psychologist &#38; Counsellor Associates Sydney</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-1972</link>
		<dc:creator>Psychologist &#38; Counsellor Associates Sydney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-1972</guid>
		<description>Not sure if my last comment was recieved. But i feel Langs holds a more extreme view than most modern relational thinkers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure if my last comment was recieved. But i feel Langs holds a more extreme view than most modern relational thinkers.</p>
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		<title>By: EastCoaster</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-1957</link>
		<dc:creator>EastCoaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-1957</guid>
		<description>On fees and the frame more generally: My psychiatrist and I, who started treating me when he was a resident, set a very low fee, because I was out of work when he started his part-time  private practice.  He thought that he would be taking insurance, but then chose not to.  It&#039;s always been understood that I would pay him more as I did better financially.  And some aspects of the frame are being worked out over time.  He suggested that we cancel an appointment when there was a very bad snow storm.  If I had suggested the same, he wouldn&#039;t have charged me, even though there was less than 24 hours notice.  We are still working out what might constitute an emergency forwhich I shouldn&#039;t be charged.

Psychotherapeutic Orientation: I think you ought to explicitly acknowledge that these are basically psychodynamic rules.  DBT would give different answers about what constitutes appropriate boundaries.

On touch: I was in a therapy group led by two residents.  It was primarily behavioral, being focused on midfulness and *some* of the principles of DBT.  (It ended abruptly, because the residency program decided to drop all group therapy at its 2 private sites.  Since both of our leaders were leaving the clinic that year, we only had a week&#039;s notice.  A rising resident had already been chosen, but she wasn&#039;t going to start by terminating over 2 months, but that&#039;s another story.)  As the female resident got ready to go, our all female, all straight group gave her a hug goodbye.  In context, I don&#039;t think that was inappropriate.  When one of the other leaders left to go to a child fellowship, one of the group members bought her some flowers.  Again, not inappropriate in my book.  Of course, this was in a clinic setting, so some of the baseline rules had been established from above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On fees and the frame more generally: My psychiatrist and I, who started treating me when he was a resident, set a very low fee, because I was out of work when he started his part-time  private practice.  He thought that he would be taking insurance, but then chose not to.  It&#8217;s always been understood that I would pay him more as I did better financially.  And some aspects of the frame are being worked out over time.  He suggested that we cancel an appointment when there was a very bad snow storm.  If I had suggested the same, he wouldn&#8217;t have charged me, even though there was less than 24 hours notice.  We are still working out what might constitute an emergency forwhich I shouldn&#8217;t be charged.</p>
<p>Psychotherapeutic Orientation: I think you ought to explicitly acknowledge that these are basically psychodynamic rules.  DBT would give different answers about what constitutes appropriate boundaries.</p>
<p>On touch: I was in a therapy group led by two residents.  It was primarily behavioral, being focused on midfulness and *some* of the principles of DBT.  (It ended abruptly, because the residency program decided to drop all group therapy at its 2 private sites.  Since both of our leaders were leaving the clinic that year, we only had a week&#8217;s notice.  A rising resident had already been chosen, but she wasn&#8217;t going to start by terminating over 2 months, but that&#8217;s another story.)  As the female resident got ready to go, our all female, all straight group gave her a hug goodbye.  In context, I don&#8217;t think that was inappropriate.  When one of the other leaders left to go to a child fellowship, one of the group members bought her some flowers.  Again, not inappropriate in my book.  Of course, this was in a clinic setting, so some of the baseline rules had been established from above.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2007/04/episode-12-the-necessity-of-the-frame-in-psychotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-1657</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepsychfiles.com/?p=49#comment-1657</guid>
		<description>As far as whether or not your experience was bad therapy: it would be really hard for me to tell based upon only this information.  It depends upon how she was trying to get at these thoughts (&quot;accusing&quot; certainly doesn&#039;t sound like a good way to go about it).  Wish I could say more, but I don&#039;t want to make any judgments based upon only this information.

As far as whether therapists are trained to not their opinions interfere with their advice: yes, I&#039;d say that most therapeutic training programs do emphasize this.  However it is one thing to try to train people to do it, and another (hard) thing for therapists to be constantly aware of what they are doing and to be able to separate themselves and their needs from their patients.  The hope is that most all of them can do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as whether or not your experience was bad therapy: it would be really hard for me to tell based upon only this information.  It depends upon how she was trying to get at these thoughts (&#8220;accusing&#8221; certainly doesn&#8217;t sound like a good way to go about it).  Wish I could say more, but I don&#8217;t want to make any judgments based upon only this information.</p>
<p>As far as whether therapists are trained to not their opinions interfere with their advice: yes, I&#8217;d say that most therapeutic training programs do emphasize this.  However it is one thing to try to train people to do it, and another (hard) thing for therapists to be constantly aware of what they are doing and to be able to separate themselves and their needs from their patients.  The hope is that most all of them can do this.</p>
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